Episode 120: Elevating New Voices: A Conversation with Christina Pipkin

In this episode, Dr. Almitra Berry sits down with Christina Pipkin, a lifelong educator and equity warrior, to discuss her personal journey and the importance of supporting students with incarcerated parents. Pipkin shares her own experiences growing up with an incarcerated father and the role educators can play in creating inclusive and supportive environments for these students. The conversation explores the impact of teacher expectations and the need to strengthen the relationship between the caregiver, the incarcerated parent, and the child.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:03

If you're a parent, teacher or school leader and you're sick and tired of the frustration, anger and unfair treatment of children at high risk in our public schools, then perhaps it's time for all of us to do something about it. In this podcast, Dr amitra Berry brings you tips, tools, strategies and tactics to build successful solutions while touching, moving and inspiring all of us to transform our schools so that every child thrives. Here's your host. Dr Berry,

Dr Almitra Berry: 0:41

welcome back, equity warriors. Thanks for joining me today. Continuing today a special series elevating new voices and future guest hosts of the 3e podcast, I am joined today by someone I'm honored to call a good friend. Her name is Christina Pipkin, and you will be hearing from Christina PIP she's got that on her screen there pip in the an episode where she shares her own story. So I'm excited to have this virtual sit down with her. We're going to dive into some things and and dig a little deeper. Because I really, really want you to hear her voice, her whole voice, all of her voice, and get to know her a little bit better. So Pip, welcome to the show.

Unknown: 1:26

Thank you. Thank you for having me. You say friend and I say everything. You are so much more than a friend to me, you really are. So thank you for this opportunity in the platform that you created here.

Dr Almitra Berry: 1:40

Alright, well, you know, we have been told, some of us have been told, my generation, I'll be specific, my generation, was told that we had a responsibility to help others, especially others of color in our community, to elevate them, to pass on what we know, to make life a little bit better for them, so that they don't have to struggle so much. So part of my personal current mission is to elevate those other voices and to be, I don't know, you know, I guess if we were sort of in the neighborhood, like the neighborhood mom, who do you go to for whatever? I don't like thinking of myself as the neighborhood mom, but I guess that that sort of fits, or maybe a professional, a work mom, there you go, a work mom that you can go to somebody who's had to deal with some things that you know we shouldn't have to, right? Yeah, because we can help others. I would say each one teach one. That's what we're told, right? Each one teach one. So I'm trying to each one. Me the one. Teach 10.

Unknown: 2:45

I love it. Yeah, definitely work, work. Mom, I can, I can, I can. Dig that. I usually say bonus mom, even though, usually that's because of marriage, but you're just, you're my bonus, everything, mentor, support system. You definitely have pushed me in ways that I didn't even know I needed to be pushed. And you challenged me in a way that helps me to grow and to continue to be that equity warrior that we say we are right, like we have to be a part of the movement and a part of the solution, because, if not, we are the problem.

Dr Almitra Berry: 3:20

I like that. I like that. Yeah. And this is why I want to make sure that people hear from you. You, you have a lot to share. A lot to share. So in case people have not yet heard your story when they're listening to this, why don't you give us a, not the 62nd elevator speech, but give us the, give us a little bit of a rundown. Who is Pip,

Unknown: 3:41

yeah. So I am a native Texan. I was born in Dallas, moved to Houston around 10 years old, 11 years old, and I have one sibling, so my sister and I are very close. My parents were married at one point. They've been divorced since I was 18, so quite a while of my parents not being together. And I am an educator, lifelong learner. I feel that education is definitely what elevates you and provides more opportunities for you. So I went to my undergrad at Spelman with my degree, my bachelor's in early childhood development. So I knew very early on that I wanted to be an educator. Fun fact, I actually wanted to do print journalism when I was in high school. I wanted to do videography and photography. That was my jam. That's still kind of like what I moonlight as when I get the opportunity. But I always knew I wanted to be a teacher, and I was able to be around people that really helped me to find my niche and find my direction. And so after getting my bachelor's, I went to I came home, I was going to continue school and stay away, but I decided to come home and I started teaching. I started. Started with second grade self contained and Fort Bend ISD, where I did that for about five years, so teaching all subject areas for second grade students. And then I moved to Cypress Fairbanks ISD, where I did third grade, ela reading social studies. And I did that for just under three years, and I had an opportunity to connect with someone that was doing district level professional development, and she said, Pip you're really great at presenting. Have you ever considered actually presenting and providing PD for other people? I was like, I would love to, absolutely I would love to. I just never had the opportunity. And so she gave me a contact. She says I have a friend that is at McGraw Hill. She's looking for someone to do some per diem work. And I did a little light stocking on Facebook and LinkedIn, and I connected with her. So that was my way out. I was able to get out of the traditional public school setting and started to do implementation, personalized learning support at McGraw Hill. And at that point, that's when Dr Barry and I got to be connected. So once you and I started working together, I just knew that I wanted to keep that connection as tight and close as possible. And then right before the pandemic, actually a little bit before that, because I actually graduated during the pandemic. I went back to school to get my masters in curriculum instruction. When instructional technology, at the time, it was called Houston Baptist University. Now it's Houston Christian University. So I do have my masters from HCU, and then at that point, I did take a couple of years off normally, with the story of a lot of people. The pandemic really did shift a lot of people's thinking, lot of priorities. And I always knew that I wanted to have the highest degree possible in my field, but I just didn't know when was the right time. And I tried a couple of programs, and just I never got accepted. And so I didn't take it as a failure. I just took it as this is not the time to do it. And I think you and I, we talked about that, and you, you were like, Well, why do you feel like it's not the right time, like it's not easy. I don't have the focus. I really don't think my heart is into it, and so fast forwarding. I now am in my second year Good grief. Can't even believe my second year. Yesterday was the last day, or recently, just finished the summer semester. So I just I'm really excited about this next journey that I'm on. I'm getting my doctorate in education, leadership, technology, out of New Jersey City University, so I'm able to have a pretty asynchronous, flexible schedule for most part of the year, and then we have an all intensive in the summer where I get to be on campus and be with other people in my cohort. So, I mean, I know that's all of the kind of educational bits of me. I just wanted to kind of qualify that I am an educated person, and I have have, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to certain things, but when we're talking about personally, I like to give people my lack of better words, my resume, but that's not really indicative of my true story, because I always say my sister and I are somewhat of an anomaly, simply because our father was incarcerated a large majority of our childhood and just not having a two family, or, excuse me, a two parent household, not having all of the resources needed all the time. You know, my mom was strapped for cash a lot of time things we had to we didn't get to do everything that we wanted to do. We had all of our needs provided for us. We had a wonderful childhood, but it wasn't in that traditional nuclear nucleus type of situation where you have two parent, household, white picket fence, whatever dog, cat, you know that situation of what the American dream is that wasn't my reality, and yet and still, I was able to be successful. My sister has been able to be successful. And I think that there's space for us to have students that are in this situation, that have had an incarcerated family member or parent, still be successful. They don't have to be what this the statistics say that they are right. And so, how do we do that as an educator? What? What's my role? How can I support How can I do that?

Dr Almitra Berry: 9:42

You know, I'm glad that you led with the academics for a couple of reasons. One, I think it's critical that people hear from more people who have become educated in alternative routes, right? We cannot all. I. Mean, I certainly couldn't, I couldn't afford it because, you know, I think, like you, I was paying the majority now, all of my undergraduate, my masters, my certification courses, which was a Masters, except I didn't do the thesis, and then a doctoral program, I had to pay for all of that. I didn't have two parents like you that could do that, but also for people to hear on the back end that you didn't have everything at home to support you in that work coming off of where we are in this country right now, and I'm not sure exactly when this will air timing wise, but having listened to Kamala Harris and now reading her book, telling her story. There, I think are a whole lot more people like us, yeah, been successful and done amazing things and do good work. Then there are those, as you said, a white picket fence. I never had one of those either. I didn't have a picket fence until I was 40, and I built that sucker. Yeah, you know, so and when I say I built it, I mean, I went to the lumber yard and got the wood and dug the post holes. And when I say I built it, I didn't pay somebody to come and do it, actually built it. I think it takes away a lot of, potentially a lot of excuses that people might have about why I can't go to school, why I can't continue my education while working. I know you did yours while you were working. I remember schlepping around two computers because I was, you know, 85% travel at the time and needed a personal computer for school, plus a work computer for for work, and carrying those things through security and airports, and, you know, just that, that extra burden, but, but it's important for people to know you can do it. It's not impossible. Yeah, you know. And, and for, for for the young folks, the millennials, the Gen Z's that might be, I'm getting, starting to there's so many generations now, I have to remember, I know there that might be listening to this. Your what is available to you now, for options to go to school, continue your schooling while you are working are so much greater than they were even 10 years ago, and the acceptance of education from alternative routes is so much greater than it was, you know, 10, even 15 years ago. So I'm glad you shared that part of your story.

Unknown: 12:38

Thank you. I mean, it's, it's important in in my opinion. I mean, I guess I take it personally, obviously, right? Because this is my journey. This is the work that I put into and I'm proud of that. I definitely feel to not be cocky or anything like that. I learning comes easily for me. That's it's natural. I feel bored when I'm not learning something. This is how I, you know, fill my pastime is learning new content, you know, being involved in different organizations, just trying to absorb as much as I can. And I think that, I mean, I think there's lots of different factors to it, of why I'm like that, but part of it is I learned about philanthropy really early on, and you know, just that idea of giving back, the idea that it's not reasonable to think one person can provide all of your needs for you. So thinking from a child's perspective, it's not reasonable to think that my mom is going to give me literally every life lesson. Give me all of the things that I need. I need to have exposure in other places as well, to be, you know, as fully rounded as possible. So, yeah,

Dr Almitra Berry: 13:50

yeah, really important. So you've mentioned, and I know when you in your your your story, your solo podcast, you talk about being a child with an incarcerated parent. I have taught children in my classrooms who had an incarcerated parent, but seeing it from the teacher side is very different from seeing it from the child's side. And I know you're going to go into that, or you go into that in your solo podcast, and I don't want to ruin it for anybody who hasn't listened to it yet, but I do want you to share, if you can, maybe something that you're not sharing in that podcast, something that that educators can hear from you, and maybe as they look at their classrooms right now, If that child, if there's a pip in their classroom right now, what should they see say do to make the space of their classroom inclusive and a place of belonging for that child? Yeah,

Unknown: 14:56

I really appreciate that question, because to your. Point, I had students in my class that were, you know, had incarcerated parents or even in even an incarcerated older sibling that was really instrumental with helping watch them after school and being a part of that and speaking about me personally. And one of the things that I try to be intentional with my students was because I did have this own experience myself. I can't definitively say that any of my teachers actually knew my dad was incarcerated, right? I can't definitively say that my mom had a conversation with them to say, you know, Dad's not around, whatever the case may be. And I think for me, without knowing how to name it as a kid, I think I was embarrassed. I think that I was ashamed. I think that I didn't know how to have conversations with people that did have a dad at home, you know, two parents at home, and I only had one, you know. And luckily, my sister is six years older than me, so she we literally are best friends. You know, she helped so many things. You know, she was the one that was doing my hair for me, you know, helping me pick out school clothes, that kind of thing. So it even though I wasn't vocal about it in classes, I think it showed because I was throwing myself into other places of school, so that I wasn't necessarily at home board, right? So I was always doing some sort of extracurricular. I was always wanting to help the teacher, and I want to be clear that this is not the typical behavior of someone that is dealing with incarcerated family members. Usually there, there might be acting out in a different way. My acting out was in academics. I wanted to have something to fill me up in a different way, to kind of fill that void, that gap, right?

Dr Almitra Berry: 16:54

But you're saying something there, and I want to make sure we we like, stick a pin in it, put it on the put a giant poster there. You said, it's probably not typical. And so what happens? I'm just from hearing that, I'm thinking, what is it in terms of our mindsets as educators, when we hear that a child has an incarcerated parent? Are we? We have some preconceived notion, a bias, a prejudice, that's going to say to us, well, then this child must is going to be trouble, you know, and immediately create something that that that implicit bias. Then we all have them of some form or another. We all have implicit bias, but a bias that would make you, as an educator, think less of that child, spend less time and energy on that child, have lower expectations for that child because of the status of a parent.

Unknown: 17:52

Yeah, yeah. That's true. It's very true. Unfortunately,

Dr Almitra Berry: 17:56

yeah, yeah. And I think about Hattie's work and that you know, one of the greatest determinants of success or failure for a child is the expectations of their teacher. And so if you as an educator, know, if you as a teacher, because there's a difference between a teacher and an educator, when I want to make that distinction, I'll be real clear. As an educator, if you have a lesser expectation because of a bias, then you are the one that's setting that child up for failure later on. It's not the child.

Unknown: 18:31

Yeah, yeah. And you know, in this moment, just hearing what you're saying and just thinking, reflecting on my experience as a child, right? Not as a teacher, but as a child. I'm wondering if the conversations that I had at home with my mom and with my family, if that helped to have me have a different response, regardless of the type of teacher that I had, right? Because I had some really fantastic teachers, and then I had some that were just whatever they were, just my teacher, and I just had to deal with it. But there was never a situation where, and honestly or ironically, rather, I was talking to my mom recently about this, that there was never this lie. They never lied to my sister and I, they never lied and said, Oh, Dad's on vacation. Dad's off at school. It was never, you know, because that happens, right? The caregiver thinks that they're doing the best that they can by shielding and protecting that child, when, you know, honestly, they're not giving them the full spectrum of what's happening. So, I mean, of course, when I was, you know, eight, nine, I didn't know why my dad had been incarcerated, but I did know about jail, right? Like I did know that he was in prison. I did know these things that he did something wrong, but it was never a negative conversation about my dad, right? Like, even if the adults felt that way, it was never said to my sister and I, we never had negative thoughts in. In the sense of, oh, you're, you're, you're f up, just like your dad, you know you're just going to mess up, just like your dad, like you're worthless. Those conversations, those words weren't said. And so I'm wondering in this moment, if does the first step, and I think I know the answer, but does that first step happen at home? Right? Like, what are you feeding? What is the life that you're giving to your child at home that now goes to school? Because if you have a defeated child at home, they come to school and they're getting defeated again by their teacher, because the teacher thinks that you're a troublemaker, even if you are just saying hey to your friend next to you, or you're excessively talking, you know, especially being thinking about the population of students, rather the population of families and people that are incarcerated, disproportionately it's people of color. So if you are already have this very low fuse for what you would consider behavior issues from these students of color. Where do they have a safe space? Where do they have a place to hear that they can be great, that they can be wonderful, that they are smart, that they are magical, that they are brilliant. When does that happen for them? And so I do think, and part of my dissertation work that I'm wanting to get into is focusing on this, this relationship between the caregiver, the incarcerated parent, and the child. How do we strengthen that? Because there's so many adverse consequences and effects that happen because that child feels that they are unable, that they are not capable, that they're not worthy, you know. So I wonder if, how do we change that dynamic? How do we ensure that, you know, we can't control things that are happening at home, but we can control what we're saying at school. And I mean, I don't want you to be unethical, right? I don't want you to say, Hey, is your you got a family member that's locked up, who's in jail like that's not that's not the point of the work that I want to be focused on. It's more so just being that extended village for that student, that additional safe space, that soft place to land, that place that can also challenge you in a positive way, give you options for a different outcome than what you think you have by looking right in front of you. You know, if I'm thinking about my family.