Episode 102: The Thin Line: Educational Equity and the 10 Commandments in Public Schools

This episode discusses a new Louisiana law requiring public schools to display the Ten Commandments. It argues this can marginalize students of other faiths and negatively impact educational equity. Examples are given of how students from minority religions may feel excluded or targeted in such a situation. It concludes that equitable schools should respect all students' beliefs while remaining neutral on religion.

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Transcript

EP 102 The thin line

Mon, Jul 01, 2024 8:44PM • 29:16

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

law, classroom, religion, religious, amira, children, tenants, commandments, impact, court, violate, students, teaching, promote, school, respect, kids, feel, teacher, history

SPEAKERS

Dr Almitra Berry

Dr Almitra Berry  00:00

Welcome back equity. Words, thanks for tuning in to another episode of the 3e podcast. You know they say there's a thin line between love and hate. Well, there's also a thin line between religious freedom and educational equity in our schools. Let's talk today about the Louisiana 10 Commandments law controversy. So in case you haven't heard there's a law that was passed in Louisiana that requires the 10 Commandments be displayed in public schools, and not just any version of the 10 Commandments, a very specific version of the 10 Commandments. Now Louisiana is the first state to require the 10 Commandments be displayed in every public classroom, and when I say every we're talking about down with the littles in kindergarten, all the way through state funded universities. Now, state funded universities, if you're a college student, you have the cognitive capacity to process that and understand the background and the history and the politics around why it's being done. But if you're a kinder, I always call them the littles, and they're so cute I can never teach kindergarten, though, can't sing, can't carry a tune in a paper sack. So the littles, though, the kinders that are just learning how to properly socialize and what school in this world means to them, that's a very delicate age. So I have an issue with the whole thing, but I really have an issue with this being down in kindergarten. So the law says that the commandments have to be on a poster or a frame document, very specific. That is at least 11 by 14 inches in size with large, easily readable font, so big letters poster in every classroom. Now I'll share that when I taught us history, once upon a time, I was told I had to take the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution down from the walls of my classroom. Again, I was teaching us history, and I had had to take those things down from the walls, because the word God was in them and references to religious beliefs. So just saying, the law says that by the beginning of 2025 that these displays have to be in every classroom, and they do say that donations, not state funding are going to pay for it, but it doesn't matter, because it state funds that are going to have to pay for the lawsuits that come up behind it. We're going to talk about that lawsuit in just a second. The people who support this say that there's historical significance. The opponents question its constitutionality. I will put myself firmly in the camp of the opponents the there's a representative, Dodie Horton, clearly a Republican, or obviously a Republican, who is the primary sponsor of the bill, and he said that he sought to have a display of God's law in the classroom for children to see what he says is right and what he says is wrong. We're talking about right and wrong in just a second. Republican governor Jeff Landry signed the bill. He's been a strong supporter of this law. His quote, If you want to respect the rule of law, you've got to start with the original lawgiver, which was Moses. Now, from a religious standpoint, if you are a Christian and Christian history, Moses gave the 10 Commandments. But those 10 Commandments, technically, from an academic sense, are religious tenets. We'll get there in just second. Stay with me, because all of this has to do with equity. I promise you, this has to do with equity and instruction. First known set of laws in world history. Do you know or Namu, an ancient Sumerian ruler. It was the Sumerians who formulated the first codes, the code of ornamu around 2100 to 2050 BCE. It is considered to be the oldest extant law code, and it has basically these, if thin statements. If you do this, then this will happen. And it covered various aspects of both civil and criminal law, following or Namu, there was another early law code. Maybe you remember this one from your middle school world history class or high school world history class, the code of Hammurabi, 1760 BCE, roughly by King Hammurabi of Babylon. Now the code of Hammurabi is really one of the most well preserved and comprehensive ancient legal documents. It also covered a wide range of legal issues, family law, criminal law, civil law. But you might be wondering, what's the difference between those and the 10 Commandments? Well, let's look at the difference between laws and religious tenants, there is a source of authority that is different between the two. Laws are created and enforced by governments and legal systems, whereas religious tenants come from a religious text, a tradition or a spiritual authority. Difference in how they apply a law applies to everybody every. Every citizen, every visitor, everyone that's within that jurisdiction. It doesn't matter where I come from. If I am in the state of whatever Texas, I have to follow Texas law, and it doesn't matter what my personal beliefs are. Religious tenants, though, only apply to followers of that particular religion. Imagine, just imagine if you were held legally responsible to adhere to tenants of other religions. Okay, big difference. There laws get enforced by the state. There's a legal system, police, courts, etc, no matter how biased they may be. That is how the law works. But religious tenants are only enforced through social pressure. Maybe religious authorities. Maybe it's your personal conscience, and that is why Thou shalt not kill has not resulted in any meaningful legislation. There is no law enforcing Thou shalt not kill when it comes to mass shootings happening in our schools, because if there was bump stocks would not be legal, weapons of mass destruction, machine guns would not be legal, and our children wouldn't be dying from mass shootings in classrooms, month after month after month. Okay, that's how we enforce a law versus a tenant. When we violate a law, there is a legal punishment. Most of the time, you get a fine, you go to jail. But if you violate a religious tenant, yeah, there might be some spiritual consequences. There could be social ostracism. You could be excommunicated from your community if religious tenants the 10 Commandments were the law. Donald Trump, who has clearly committed adultery, coveted a porn star and other women stolen, doesn't keep a Sabbath, who still says two Thessalonians called for the execution of the Central Park Five even after they were exonerated, and lies more than fact checkers can keep up with is still walking free and spewing hate. I counted six and maybe I'm off. There might be even a case for violating number one and two, you know, having other gods before me and graven images, not only by him, but by supporters and other politicals of the Maga right, because they have made him their graven image. Laws can be changed. There is a legislative process to change a law. Religious tenants are fixed, even though interpretations may involve over time, the 10 Commandments are the 10 Commandments. We can't change them, even as members of a Christian faith. If you are a member of a Christian faith, laws are based on the needs of society. They are based on ethics and pragmatic concerns, whereas tenants are based on a spiritual belief, a sacred text or religious tradition, and laws aim to protect the social order and protect maintain social order and protect rights. But our tenants, no matter what religion focus on moral guidance and spiritual development, laws get codified, they are easily verified, but tenants typically involve or focus on it's a matter of faith that may or may not be empirically provable. Keep those things in mind. The lawsuit against the state of Louisiana, includes parents. Is being filed by parents who are Jewish, Christian, Unitarian, Universalist and non religious. It's being supported by, of course, the ACLU. Thank you, ACLU, Americans United for Separation of Church and State and the Freedom From Religion Foundation, all of these, these groups argue that the law violates separation of church and state. It's like, Duh, no brainer, and can negatively impact our students, education and their safety. Now, the Supreme Court, and we know this is going there, has historically and consistently emphasize that public schools cannot indoctrinate children in a religion. Back in 1962 quick, non sequential history, 1962 Engel versus Vitale, the court said that school sponsored prayer violates the establishment cause, even if it was non sectarian. School District of Abington Township, court band teacher led prayers and Bible reading in public schools. Now, when I was a teacher, I would always tell my students very clearly I cannot so. Support or provide a prayer for you that would be illegal. However, before I give you this test, I'm going to give you a moment to do whatever it is you need to do, short of sacrificing a chicken or laying your hands on another person in the classroom, that part's Okay, right? Okay? In 1992 the court said that clergy led prayers at public school graduation ceremonies violate the Establishment Clause. Now I will say I have been at a number of school events, particularly in Texas graduations, meetings, etc, where there is prayer provided before the meeting starts. Now, I know that's a violation. It has not personally, does not impact me. I'm an adult. I can think for myself, but I do concern myself with how this impacts children. So Supreme Court very clear. There in 2000 moving into the current century. The court prohibited school sponsored high school football games, and then very closely connected to what we're looking at. In 1980 the court ruled that posting the 10 Commandments in public school classrooms violated the Establishment Clause. Remember, Landry said he can't wait to be sued. He knew. He knows stone versus Graham. He knows that the court has already said you cannot do this. And in 2005 the court ruled that displaying the 10 Commandments in courthouses or schools violates the establishment clause if the purpose is to promote religion. He knew. He knows they all know. The court has generally drawn a distinction between a religious activity that is designed to indicate religious sentiment and values, those things are prohibited, and the teaching about religion, which is allowed. Now one last note on prayer, the prayer thing, and how the court is starting to shift is there was a case in 2022 just a few years ago, Kennedy versus Bremerton School District. Some of you may remember hearing about this in the news where there was a high school football coach who prayed on the 50 yard line after every game. Now initially, he did this by himself, but over time, some of his own players joined him, and later on, even players from the opposing team would join Him in prayer. Now, while it would seem that that was very clearly a state sponsored, or school sponsored, teacher led prayer, the court did find in his favor, and that is one indication of how the court is shifting towards a greater accommodation of religious expression in schools, and that might have an impact or alter how we view the separation of church and state in public education. So this is something that we very nearly, very clearly need to keep our eyes on. How does this connect with equity? As I said, I would get there. Thank you for being patient with me. Remember my four equity indicators. They're back in episode four. If you're new to the show and you didn't start at episode one and you want that that understanding of my four equity indicators, I refer to them quite often. And if you're ever in one of my sessions, I'm probably going to talk about them there. There are four equity indicators. One of those indicators is impartiality. And impartiality, we ask the question, Does this action, this behavior, this thing, whatever it is, does it accurately and appropriately consider the culture of all those affected, and the word culture. Could we could substitute religion, belief, education? Does it accurately and appropriately consider all those affected, or does it represent a bias of some form? We have to ask if this law equally and fairly represents every child in the state of Louisiana. Now I'm going to, I want to share, because we're all looking for pointers. How do we how do we understand this? How do we are you against this? How might it impact the children in my classrooms, your classrooms, your own children, if you're a parent who's not an educator, but you're listening. Thank you for joining us, and this is what you need to know. I had a student probably, oh, in my last four years of teaching, and I will call her Amira, not her real name. You all know I never use a child's real name on the show. Amira came to me, and you may have heard me tell part of this story after the school year was already established, and she came into the room with her father. Class was already going on, and Amira had a. She wore a hijab. She was the only student in our school. Well, she also had a younger sister that came that day as well. But in my classroom and in my teaching experience, it was the first time that I had a young Muslim woman in my classroom who did have to wear the head covering because of her age and her religious beliefs. I did not know at that time, when they walked in the room that the dad was also an imam. He walked in the room and he looked around and introduced himself, and clearly was not going to shake my hand, which was cool. I, you know, have a little bit of cultural awareness. I understand what was going on. And he said to me, as he looked at at the the seat that was empty, I think I got heads up that I was going to have a student, and went to put her in that that desk. He said, No, no boy, no boy, no boy, because there were boys on either side of her and either in front of her, probably behind her, so she needed to be in a space where she was not going to be next to another boy, okay, respecting her religion, her needs, and wanting her to feel included in my classroom, not marginalized. I made accommodations for the remainder of the year to make her feel safe. One of the things that happens when we unfairly promote a religion is that our students who do not share in that religion may feel excluded or marginalized. If you have a student who in your classroom who is, let's say, Hindu and is uncomfortable participating in activities around Christian holidays, Easter egg hunts, Christmas pageants, although now a lot of times we call them winter pageants, even a Christmas tree in Your classroom that child, especially if they're the only one, can feel isolated and excluded from the school community. Another thing that happens is there is an increased risk of bullying or harassment. Back to Amira, there were kids not in my classroom because y'all know I wasn't having any of that my classroom, my students understood respect for each other and defending one another. When they were outside of my classroom, my kids stuck together. They had a wonderful unified culture, but there were kids outside of my classroom who initially picked on a mirror. There were kids who tried to pull her hijab off of her head, cruel and kids can be cruel. Her clothing made her a target for bullying and harassment. Seek children who may wear turbans as well, face discrimination and bullying from peers who do not understand or do not respect their religious practices and these things impact not just their physical well being, but Their social, their emotional, their psychological well being as well when we display specific pieces of a religion, pieces around a particular faith, done inappropriately, like the Louisiana law is requiring it may conflict with the personal beliefs and practices of children. I've also talked about the Texas and Florida Chaplain laws. Go back and check those out as well. But when children's beliefs differ from what you what is being promoted, they may feel pressure to participate in activities that go against their religious convictions. I had a student in my classroom one year who was a Jehovah's Witness. He didn't say the Pledge of Allegiance, and that was fine. He understood we had a discussion at the beginning of the year that we were mandated to give the pledge every day that during that time he could remain in his seat, quiet and respectful. That's all I asked. He didn't have to stand. He didn't have to say anything. Just remain in his seat, quiet and respectful. No heavy sighing, no any, you know, any of that. And he was a great kid, never had an issue with it. But those are the things, those types of, you know, why is everybody why? How come he is to sit down and we all have to stand up and do this? Those things, though, can lead to some internal conflict and stress for children who are not strong enough in their faith or in their practice, there's also an impact on their academic performance. Think about students who must balance a religious commitment with academic responsibilities. During Ramadan, Amira was fasting, and because she was the only child in a. Elementary fourth, fifth or sixth grade. We were at k6 elementary school. She was the only one who was fasting. I just I could not, with any conscience, send her to the cafeteria with the rest of my kids at lunchtime, I just couldn't do it. I thought that was cruel, so I fasted too, and at lunchtime, she would stay in the room with me. She would read quietly. I would work on lesson plans or grading, and I wouldn't eat. I would drink water all day long. That was allowed. I allowed her to keep a bottle of water. This was back when we weren't even allowed to let kids have water in the classroom, but that's what we did to accommodate that. Imagine how kids feel, how they must struggle to balance those religious commitments to the culture of school when we don't make accommodations? Imagine scheduling exams on holidays that might disadvantage Muslim students on their religious holidays or Jewish students. Imagine if we had mandatory activities on Saturdays that impact the Jewish Sabbath or the Muslim holy hours, holy day. These things impact academic performance and the child school experience. Again, there's a psychological, social, emotional impact to all of those. And sure, there are some challenges to creating an environment that's fully inclusive for children, but we can do it if we display symbols of one religion. We must display symbols of all religion to represent all our children and all that they value. What is their culture? If we want to foster a sense of belonging and respect for diversity, you need to do that, and here's why, when you create that inclusive environment, you promote respect and understanding. Kids understand that they can appreciate religious diversity and their peers without proselytization. Is that a word without indoctrination into a religion. When they learn about different faiths and they interact with people, their peers from various religious backgrounds, it reduces prejudice and stereotypes and discrimination, they gain mutual understanding, and it prepares them to thrive in a society that is diverse, it enhances their academic performance, their critical thinking. There's research that shows that religious diversity in a classroom can improve students' learning outcomes and academic performance. It It supports critical thinking skills because kids consider multiple perspectives, that's a diversity of thought that creates a rich learning experience for every child. And the third thing is that that diversity supports students well being, as well as their sense of belonging. When we create this inclusive environment that respects all children, all religions, it helps them, as it did help Amira feel safe, feel valued, feel accepted, and, in her case, protected. It's essential for our children to have a sense of belonging. It's not just essential, it's crucial. It's crucial for their social emotional development, it's crucial for their overall well being. When students feel that their identities are respected, they're much more likely to be engaged in classroom instruction, in activities and have a positive educational experience. So how do we do this? How can we teach about religion in public schools without promoting religion? It is possible we have comparative religion courses in some schools, where they have classes that objectively study and compare different world religions, looking at the history, the beliefs, the practices and cultural impacts, without favoring a particular faith, we can incorporate religion into history and social studies we did. I was teaching California. It was in our social studies standards for sixth grade. We were teaching ancient world history, and one of the things that we taught were the tenets of the major religions. So Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism and Islam, and understanding that there were basic things like the 10 Commandments, right? But there is something equivalent to that in all religions. We can study a religious text as literature. When I taught at the high school, high school level, there was the literature of the Bible, the literature of the Quran, or the literature of the Bhagavad Gita. There's literary quality in those texts. There's narrative structure to be discussed. There's cultural significance that can be studied and discussed without promoting a religious belief in. And we can look at art and music teachers. You do this well, looking at the religious influences in art and music gospel choirs, because art and music classes can explore how themes and beliefs have inspired artistic and musical works throughout history. They can focus on the cultural and esthetic aspects without promoting religious doctrine. Our kids can learn about history, excuse me, about religion in history, culture and society, while being neutral and academic and promoting critical thinking skills without denigrating any religious belief representation. Now, reasons for doing this, and reasons why, if you want educational equity, you cannot promote specific religion, as I said before, you will marginalize and exclude students from minority religions, and there's potential for discrimination and for harassment by peers, yes, but also by microaggressing educators. If I go back to Amira, I had a teacher, or there was a teacher when we took our sixth grade trip to the Middle School to show the kids where they were going to go to school the next year, and they had discussed that there were no hats to be worn in school. And there was a teacher at that school who reached to remove amira's hijab, and she was behind her. The teacher was behind this child and went to pull it off of her head, and as I dove over the table and grabbed the teacher's arm to stop her. This teacher looked at me like I was crazy, and my kids were smiling because they knew what was going on. She said, We don't allow hair head coverings. I said, that is a religious head covering, and it's protected by law. And she backed away and didn't say anything else our children need that protection, not just from their peers, but from educators who are, I'll just say, ignorant as well. But there's more. We don't want to violate first amendment rights. We don't want to promote the academic disadvantages. We're already seeing a reduced focus on diversity and inclusion. Dei becoming a dirty word everywhere with book bans and everything else that's going on, and remember that there's research that shows that religious affiliation can lead to in group bias in grading and in evaluation that unfairly impacts students. We don't want to do that. We will miss tremendous educational opportunities if our kids don't learn about diverse belief systems, if they don't develop some religious literacy that prepares them to live in a pluralistic society, and when we think about the long term, societal impacts, the reinforcement of divisions in society and and hindering the the development of mutual understanding, the development of respect between different groups of people. You know, it's funny now, it's hypocritical, actually, how we demonize other countries that have strict codes like Sharia law under the guise of freedom, and then we institute laws that are a form of indoctrination in our schools, and last but not least, all of this just ends up in more and more lawsuits and community conflicts that are disruptive to the educational environment we continue to hinder academic success of marginalized learners specifically, but all learners generally. Equitable schools are neutral turf. Equitable schools respect all students beliefs while focusing on academic goals and developing understanding of diverse perspectives. So join me again next week and every week, connect with me on social. Send me your questions, your topics, requests, vote. Get informed and vote and don't worry about the things you cannot change. Change the things you can no longer accept.